Home > News > 2013 > March >
Surprises and Questions: What Will the New Pope Mean for Adventists?
.
Submitted: Mar 13, 2013
By Adventist Today News Team


Cardinal Jorge M. Bergoglio’s election as Pope Francis I did not surprise some Adventists. The noted Seventh-day Adventist theologian Samuele Bacchiocchi, who died in 2008, had mentioned the Jesuit university administrator from Argentina as a possible Pope in 2005.
 
Bergoglio “is a soft-spoken intellectual, and a respected theological and philosophical thinker,” Bacchiocchi wrote at the time. Both were of Italian ancestry and products of Catholic academic institutions, although Adventist Today has not found any evidence that they ever met. “If Bergoglio were to be elected Pope, his simplicity and humility would impress the world. For example, in Argentina people admire the fact that he takes public transportation rather than a chauffer-driven limousine.”
 
Francis I is the first pope from Latin America and the southern hemisphere, and the first Jesuit to become pope. “The idea of a Jesuit Pope is not readily acceptable,” Bacchiocchi wrote in 2005 “because Jesuits are not supposed to receive ecclesiastical honors [and] have a troublesome history of insubordination to papal authority.” Surprisingly, Bacchiocchi made no reference to the many negative things that Adventist writers and preachers have had to say about Jesuits over the years.
 
A number of journalists in the secular news media referred to Bergoglio as unexpected today, pointing out that he is 76 and was not mentioned in published lists of possible popes in recent weeks. But Bacchocchi saw him as a possibility in 2005 and Radio Christiandad reported in June 2006 that he was “according to many reports, runner-up in the last conclave.”
 
Bergoglio is aligned with the very conservative wing of the Catholic faith and has been accused of silence about, if not complicity with disappearances, torture and atrocities during Argentina’s anti-communist “dirty war.” In some ways he embodies the worst fears of some Adventists about the Catholic hierarchy. It is predictable that Email bulletins will soon be circulating that identify this papal election as a sign that end-time prophecy is being fulfilled.
 
Equally important in this event is the emergence of Latino leadership in a worldwide religion. That is also a “sign of the times” for the Adventist Church. “It may hint at surprises to come at major occasions in the Adventist Church over the next three years,” a retired church administrator told Adventist Today.

________________________
Share your thoughts about this article:

Brendan Knudson
2013-03-14 3:35 AM

‚Äč

Cue conspiracy theories from Jesuit-hunters now... :-)

Heaven is not waiting for a certain time for Jesus to return... neither are they waiting for this or that specific leader to come to power... nor are they waiting for some particular events to happen on earth...

While many Adventists are busy looking to the world for signs of the end, Heaven is looking for signs in the Church to be fulfilled. Moreover the world is looking for a Church to more maturely bear the qualities of Christ's character.


PASKO PAX
2013-03-18 3:13 AM

But the political and religious events help to alert the Adventist church. I revived my faith observing world events. I spent 5 years without going to church.

 

Stephen Foster
2013-03-21 8:37 AM

“But the political and religious events help to alert the Adventist church. I revived my faith observing world events.”
 
PASKO,
This is, without doubt, the purpose of prophecy.

Stephen Ferguson
2013-03-14 7:03 AM

My mum will be flipping out about a Jesuit Pope.

Trevor Hammond [22oct1844]
2013-03-14 7:07 AM

Being the first Jesuit Pope is quite significant I would say, even if but a 'small step for man' it may translate to a 'giant leap for end times'.  But who knows?  We will see. 

Jesuit apologists will need to take note that those they defend have done a meticulous job so far in making a bad name for themselves even in their own church where they have caused considerable mischief.  Yeah, sure; there are many good things Jesuits have done and have contributed to over the years I suppose; but the same can be said of their militant Islamic counterparts.  I have reason to believe that some feminist interest groups within Adventism would have preferred a Nun being elected as Pope although I haven't heard protest of gender discrimination yet.

Perhaps Pope Francis I will deal more agressively with ending the sexual abuses committed by priests in the Catholic Church.

Trevor Hammond [22oct1844]
2013-03-14 7:32 AM

Who'd have thought it? At a time when there is a 'sudden' resignation of a Pope which hasn't happened in a very long time, we see a Jesuit get the top job.  This is not a conspiracy theory.  It just happened.  If someone can prove that Jesuits have no ties whatsoever to Freemasonry and in turn the IIuminati and the New World Order then - duh! - its a done deal.  Well, it's just my take on it and some questions...

William Noel
2013-03-14 9:06 AM

Look at what change in the Catholic church has done to fuel growth in Protestant churches.  Vatican II allowed Catholics to read their Bibles and celebrate the Mass in their native languages.  Those changes were the primary factors leading to a mass exodus from the Catholic church into Protestant churches and the largest growth ever seen in the Adventist church.  If the new pope drives more change then I expect God will use him to provide us with the greatest evangelism opportunity in world history.  My question is if we will be focused on the pope and get lost in arguments about Bible prophecy, or if we will seize the opportunity God is giving us?

Stephen Ferguson
2013-03-14 10:35 AM

Was the Papacy really healed in 1928?  Doesn't look like it to me.  Will Frances I heal it - who knows?

Elaine Nelson
2013-03-14 1:31 PM

Whether one depends on Adventist history of the Catholic church or the thousands of secular histories their opinions will differ.  As a small unknown sect, the SdA pioneers followed the U.S. contemporary sentiments in strong anti-Caholicism which is when the prophetic interpretations were written.  History and interpretations of the importance or non-importance of any event depends on when they are written.  But Adventists cling to 19th and early 20th century anti-Catholic feelings to influence SdA doctrines; beliefs unmentioned and unknown for nearly 2000 years.  The early Christian church had no inkling of Catholicism as a theat.  After all, all Christians were of one catholic church for more than a thousand years, and Adventism is very new in comparison.

If you are a Christian today, thank the Catholic church.

William Noel
2013-03-15 2:02 PM

I thank the Catholic Church for several things.  For embracing and promoting apostasy that contrasted with the character of Jesus and drove people to discover truth apart from it.  For mass persecution, torture and murder of anyone who chose to believe differently.  For spiritual deception and delusion. 

While most spiritual histories paint the post-apostolic period as one of complete apostasy, that ignores the fact that there have always been groups that have preserved and practiced the teachings of Jesus apart from the church.  So, no, I don't thank the Catholic church for me being a Christian.  I thank those forefathers who valued their salvation more than their lives and who were willing to give all to preserve the truths the Catholic Church was seeking to distort and destroy.

Nic Samojluk
2013-03-16 9:08 AM

Elaine, you said: "If you are a Christian today, thank the Catholic church."

I will rephrase what you said as follows: "If you are a pro-life Adventist, thank Rome!"

ya wei
2013-03-14 2:17 PM

I simply pray God will bless Pope Francis to continue to lead our Catholic brothers and sisters as he has done in Argentina in an exemplary manner for so long, and now on the global level stage, he will contiue to minister with humility, justice and kindness- and we pray for our President Ted Wilson to be also given freely from the same Storehouse of God, Divine knowledge, wisdom, understanding, revelation and skill to manage our Church at least as well as the Jesuits manage their Church!

Nic Samojluk
2013-03-16 9:11 AM

And I will pray that our president, Ted Wilson, will include the right to life of the unborn in his push for a revival and reformation. Our Adventist pioneers were pro-life, and we must emulate them in this respect!

earl calahan
2013-03-14 3:15 PM

All bets are off. The red garbed peacocks, with their fabulous million dollar wardrobes & perks, have not changed. Their "TRADITION " is intact. Once a Jesuit, always a Jesuit. We know their history, yes, some excellent works, but also the sordid history of being the churches militant "break their knees" group, to maintain silence, or else. The question of most Catholics, except Argentines, is, why, now, a  Jesuit?  Possibly a wolf in "sheeps clothing"? As all know, the papacy has had a very colorful, checkered,  inconsistent history. There could be a dramatic skakeup in the Curia, and expulsion of any associated with the ages old, known, camouflaged, homosexual & pedophilia problems. There will be a full court press in PR, to show the world they are putting the house of God, in order. Heads
will roll. Who else to do this unsavory job than a Jesuit?

Trevor Hammond [22oct1844]
2013-03-14 3:58 PM

Mrs Nelson says: "If you are a Christian today, thank the Catholic church."
------------
If anyone is a Christian at anytime, we should thank Jesus.  Traditionalist Adventists are very 'progressive' this regard: We believe that a Church can't save you - only Jesus Saves.

notrocketscience
2013-03-15 12:43 PM

While we wish the new pope and all Catholics good will, and should hope and pray the Holy Spirit will open their minds and hearts to the light of Scripture re. the gospel, Sabbath, state of the dead, etc.; still, to join in the above discussion, I would ask who the Waldenses, victims of the inquisition and St. Bartholomew's Day massacre, and an estimated 200 million Christian martyrs (not to mention victims of the Crusades,) have to thank for their untimely demise? (As I said to a Catholic married to an SDA, muttering as he was leaving Doug Batchelor's presentation on the Mark of the Beast, "This is nothing but hate speech! This is nothing but hate speech!," I said, "I too wish Doug hadn't been so abrupt in announcing the identification, but let's keep things in perspective: we've yet to burn anyone at the stake!") And if the Spirit of Prophecy is to be believed, especially as last day events delineated in the Great Controversy continue to unfold, how much longer should we expect time to last before the papacy reverts to its persecuting form?  And while I can understand why those educated in pontifical or Jesuit universities may take exception to the historicist interpretation of prophecy, I'm at a loss to understand why sons and daughters of the Remnant would so readily depart from it. Indeed, for me, it was the historicist interpretation that first alerted me to the possibility that the Scriptures might be inspired. Had the Lord not led me to the Adventist understanding of Daniel and Revelation, I might still be floundering around in the counter-culture liberal morass, waiting for Hal Lindsey's rapture before I would take the Bible seriously. So while there are yet things we can thank conservative Catholics for, such as their stands for the unborn and elderly, and against perversions of God's reproductive gift (b.c. excepted,) and for likely again providing a bulwark against Islamic militancy (sorry Veith, I'm still not sold on your thesis that Rome and Mecca are joined at the hip,) in the final analysis, likely for many beside myself, it would be more accurate to say, we are Christians, despite the R.C. Church, rather than because of it.

Doctorf
2013-03-15 6:07 PM

"And while I can understand why those educated in pontifical or Jesuit universities may take exception to the historicist interpretation of prophecy, I'm at a loss to understand why sons and daughters of the Remnant would so readily depart from it. Indeed, for me, it was the historicist interpretation that first alerted me to the possibility that the Scriptures might be inspired."

"...that the Scriptures might be inspired"? The Catholics had the same bible and did not employ a historicist interpretation to Daniel and Revelation. To say that particular metaphorical beasts represented a particular religious power in the future is a stretch of the imagination. The SDA "understanding" of Daniel and Revelation appears to come from a cultural paranoia of the Catholic church. It is entirely possible that the writers of Revelation were being cryptic and the metaphorical beasts represent characters at the head of Pagan Rome who were their persecutors.

The Catholic church has come to grips with its early history of persecution. I find it ironic that first the Pagans persecute the Christians. Once the Christians develop a military under the Papacy and Kings who were also Catholic they turn around and persecute others, including Pagans. To me this underscores the nature of humanity and that applies to those SDA's who think they are a remnant. If the SDA church had political power along with a military to enforce their power, the SDA's would have been conducting inqusitions. Their is an unholy link between the dark heart of man and religions that seek to "convert" either by persuasion or the sword. As one who was educated in SDA eschatology of the role of the Catholic church in the last days, I have rejected the convenient bashing of the Catholic church and the many wonderful Catholics that have crossed my path. 

As to SDA "understanding" of Revelation and prohpecy that understanding has been used to convince many that the second coming is near. Hellooo, its been 2,000 + years. I wonder what the SDA "understanding" or should I say apologetic theology will have to say after 10,000 yrs have passed and the blessed second coming still has not occurred.
 

Artaxerxes XVII
2014-03-30 5:32 AM

"And while I can understand why those educated in pontifical or Jesuit universities may take exception to the historicist interpretation of prophecy, I'm at a loss to understand why sons and daughters of the Remnant would so readily depart from it.
Hey Rome's toady, Doctorf, even if we use historical-gammartical or allegorical way in interpreting Daniel and Revelation, the little horn power in Daniel chapters 7 & 8 which usurps Christ's office as humans' only Mediator and High Priest before God, and the Harlot in Revelation 17, or the beast which was in power for 1260 years is logically your Roman Catholic Institution. And any intelligent Jew, Atheist, Muslim, skeptic, would not have the trouble of understanding that. And if they chose to become a Christian, the Seventh-day Adventist church is their right choice based on logical grounds. 

Roman Catholic theology viewed this pure woman in revelation as the ressurected Mary.. If it is to be historically interpreted, was it true that she was given wings to fly to the wilderness for 42 months (1260 years)? Did it occured in history that the mother of Jesus was about to be devoured by the dragon? Why do you glorify Mary as though she were a goddess greater than her Son? Do you worship her? You kiss her image/statute as well as other Roman Catholics do. And that looks so disgusting and stupid.

Indeed, for me, it was the historicist interpretation that first alerted me to the possibility that the Scriptures might be inspired."    --and what about this silly, dirty phrase "Scriptures might be inspired"? 

I would like to announce to the whole world that this Roman Catholic Church, this harlot of Rome does not consider the Scriptures to be inspired despite what the apostle Paul said in 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Roman Catholic church fathers and scholars keep on insisting that the living church and the glosses or commentaries of the church fathers are more authoritative than the Bible Itself because the church was the one to canonize the books to be included as inspired. Therefore, the words of God is to them nothing but a "dead letter" in as much as there is the living church to whom Christ gave the power to "bind and loose" according to her carnal desires,, and therefore she can alter even the very laws of God Himself (Daniel 7:25). Shame on you, Roman Catholic Institution! How daring, how blasphemous, how demonic, how dirty is your lawless church!

About the question as to the canonicity of the scriptures, this daring and corrupt church say that the scriptures was in the safe keeping of the church. They say. it was the church which decided what are the inspired books and what are not.. I say, no. It is necessary that the church must and should recognize those that are inspired because they must be recognized as such.. The scriptures is above the church, and the church is just the mistress of the scriptures.. The church is NOT above the words of God. How dare you, Rome, set yourselves above God. Nor is it the right of the church to decide or not to decide which book is inspired because they must recognize these books as such. Never did the church fathers of the earliest centuries (100-300) thought themselves above the Scriptures until such time when the church became institutionalized and became "Roman" under Constantine the great and that ambitious athanasus and Eusebius of Caesaria that there came the logic that the church is above scriptures..


The Catholics had the same bible and did not employ a historicist interpretation to Daniel and Revelation. To say that particular metaphorical beasts represented a particular religious power in the future is a stretch of the imagination.
Stretch of imagination? But the imagination was logical.. What about your interpretation, can it stand the criticisms of the Seventh-day Adventist scholars if we are to critique yours? It cannot.

The SDA "understanding" of Daniel and Revelation appears to come from a cultural paranoia of the Catholic church.
Cultural paranoia? what culture? what about your understanding of Daniel and Revelation, would it not be more stupid? I understand that when it comes to Daniel and Revelation, no other church explains them better than the Seventh-day Adventist church. Other churches, especially that of Rome, has the most lame, mangled, confused, accursed, desperate interpretations in their attempt to cover herself with dignity while dying spiritually just like Julius Caesar covered himself with garments of state when the daggers of the Senators pireced his body to his death.

It is entirely possible that the writers of Revelation were being cryptic and the metaphorical beasts represent characters at the head of Pagan Rome who were their persecutors.


cryptic? the fact that it is a revelation shows you are not reading the title of the book, "Revelation".. Jesus wants us to know what will happen in the future. And it is so important that the opposite of the Roman Catholic church is the remnant church, the Seventh-day Adventist church. Rome both papal and pagan is an institution of the devil.

To me this underscores the nature of humanity and that applies to those SDA's who think they are a remnant. If the SDA church had political power along with a military to enforce their power, the SDA's would have been conducting inqusitions. Their is an unholy link between the dark heart of man and religions that seek to "convert" either by persuasion or the sword. 

Nature of Roman mentality, not the Adventists.
This is projection.. It is a personality disorder that imputes to others what one has been doing. For example, you, being and addict, saw a man who had large eye bags, and you think he's also an addict because the man looks haggard and shabby,, but you do not know that the man is really a beggar. Because you are dirty, you think other people do the same. That is what Roman Catholics are. Because they have been killing millions of people in the name of religion, they think Adventists will do the same if given the chance. Sorry, Papal Rome, we're not as desperate as you do. We're happy we are the God's remnant church, and we are sure that we will win over you, you dragons, and demons. Christ has declared in 1844 that the judgement is in favor to the saints of the most high, and not to Satan and his Papal institution. Okay?


As one who was educated in SDA eschatology of the role of the Catholic church in the last days, I have rejected the convenient bashing of the Catholic church and the many wonderful Catholics that have crossed my path. 
There are many a Judas Iscariot in Adventist church, and you are one of them, darling.. Maybe you're not that educated in our echathology. Probably you're jesuit trained. You must be informed, you neophyte, that the doctrines of the Seventh-day Adventist church is inherently and essentially Anti-Roman Catholic. Do you hear me? The Seventh-day Adventist church is essentially, inherently and necessaryli Anti Roman Catholic. Just as light is against darkness, Christ is against Satan, so SDA church is against the Roman Catholic Institution until the end of time, and that will never stop. There will never be any agreement between truth and error, Adventistism and popery. We are not against catholics, but against their system, because such system is what we call "BABYLON THE HARLOT" of Revelation 17, drunk with the blood of the saints.. If you rejected catholic bashing, then get out of our church. We don't need serpents and wolves in sheep's clothing, much less, traitors who study our theology just to distort them and praise Rome. And teach others to kiss images crucifixes, and statutes, and degrade themselves by worshipping on that pagan Sunday. Do you hear me?? Get out!!


As to SDA "understanding" of Revelation and prohpecy that understanding has been used to convince many that the second coming is near. Hellooo, its been 2,000 + years. I wonder what the SDA "understanding" or should I say apologetic theology will have to say after 10,000 yrs have passed and the blessed second coming still has not occurred.
Hello? Have you never read Matthew 24:48-51? "But if that evil servant shall say in his hear, My lord delayeth His coming; and shall begin to smite his fellow servant, and to eat and drink with the drunken....."

Adventist theology never mentioned what time Christ will come, and even if it was already 2000+.. Clearly, you are not a Seventh-day Adventist theologian because you are flatly ignorant about our eschathology.. You said you are educated in SDA eschathology? that's bullshit.. Do you think we're stupid to believe Rome's miserable traitors? Adventists never mentioned the time Christ will come.. It will happen immenently.. but this wolf here said "Helloooo, its been 2,000 + years"... probably this man is the wicked servant or one of those who scoffed at the promise of His coming (2 Peter 3:4 "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,and saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation")

 


Nic Samojluk
2013-03-16 9:21 AM

notrocketscience, you said: "So while there are yet things we can thank conservative Catholics for, such as their stands for the unborn"

I say Amen to that! The True Witness of Revelation did commend the worse of the Seven Churches for the good she had done. We must admit that in this respect, Rome has stood firm as a rock aainst the onslaught of th pro-choice crowd. Rome is wrong on many doctrines. She is wrong on the state of the dead, but she is right on the state of the living!

 

earl calahan
2013-03-15 2:23 PM

Martin Luther saw the LIGHT, and it was good. Free salvation, by holy grace, through faith, priceless, unspeakable, not by works lest anyone boast.

Truth Seeker
2013-03-15 5:08 PM

Were the Jesuits once described as the bloodhounds of the Inquisition?
Maranatha

God's Will Paramount
2013-03-15 5:48 PM

World mass media has gone into overdrive into "canonising" the new Pope, before he is even installed. They (believers, secularists, atheists, humanists, post modernists, politicians etc., - in fact the whole world are in admiration before the humble man who will now accept to be called His Holiness or Holy Father ) are fast running out of superlatives to describe him. One British tabloid had a picture of him raising one hand to "bless" the adoring multitudes that stood in the rain to watch him being crowned, with bold letters, "The Hand of God"! His first personal act of worship was to pray to the virgin Mary. How biblically Christian is that? Once a Jesuit, always a Jesuit. Watch this space!

Nic Samojluk
2013-03-16 9:23 AM

And another on of his firsts acts was to bless the unborn child of a woman who is pregnant.

Edwin A. Schwisow
2013-03-22 10:43 AM

There is a considerable segment of the mainstream media that seriously questions the moral performance of Francis I while an archbishop in Argentina. Given that persistent question I see no way Francis I can be beatified at large, except by the Catholic establishment for its own purposes (if it chooses to do so). There are great and grave questions in the minds even of Catholics who lived through troubled times in Argentina, while he was a high cleric in Buenos Aires....

Vernon P. Wagner
2013-03-16 8:37 AM

According to some historians, Jesuits were behind the assassination of Lincoln, and the political turmoil that ultimately caused America's involvement in the Vietnam War.  Inasmuch as the Vatican is forever linked to the Italian government, Italian banking, and the Mafia, one can only guess at what will happen with a Jesuit Pope over whom the whole world rejoices.

Stephen Ferguson
2013-03-16 10:13 AM

What 'historians'?  Conspiract theorists are not usually recognised as 'historians' any more than witch-doctors are recognised as doctors.

Stephen Ferguson
2013-03-16 8:45 AM

'As to SDA "understanding" of Revelation and prohpecy that understanding has been used to convince many that the second coming is near. Hellooo, its been 2,000 + years. I wonder what the SDA "understanding" or should I say apologetic theology will have to say after 10,000 yrs have passed and the blessed second coming still has not occurred.'

In some ways I think there are many parallels between the early Church 2,000 years ago and the SDA Church today re the delay of Christ.

When you read many of the earilest letters, say 1 Thes, who get the feeling the apostles really did think Jesus was returning in their lifetime.  Then even a few years later, say in 2 The and 2 Peter, you can see the fear that Christ was delaying his coming.  Then go forward a couple of centuries, when Christ still hadn't returned and actually became part of the political establishment, many did away (say be adopting 'spiritual' and allegorical interpretations) with or at best downplayed the parousia.  I am reminded of Augustine's work, as a dividing line between the 2 phases.

I see something similar today.  When most of you readers on AToday (who seem to be older folk) were kids, no doubt every one of you thought Jesus would return in your lifetimes.  Well I teach teen SS, and the other day I asked how many thought Jesus would return in their lifetimes.  Not a single hand went up!  I think the SDA Church is perhaps going through a similar transition as the very early Church, in realising Jesus may not in fact be returning as soon as we think.

The point is important.  When you think the world is going to end in a few years, you don't worry about institutions, or temporal power, and tend to be inward looking.  When you realise we may be here a very long time still, it collectively has a very different impact.  

Just looking at how the SDA Churches approach to military service has and is changing, as well as involvement in government generally.  It is not unlike how the earliest church changes when it became the State religion.  The SDA Church is almost the State religion in a number of Developing countries, such as Jamaica, and is growing in secular power in many others.

The question is, will we go the same way as the early Church and develop our own 'Papacy'?  Is this the 'reform and reformation' we are destined for?

Nic Samojluk
2013-03-16 9:28 AM

If this were to happen, we would do well to remember that power corupts, and that absolute power ...

Butayl
2013-03-17 8:26 AM

This pope is not the first jesuit. Benedict was head of the inquisition. He was also a jesuit. Also, Paul spoke of the antichrist while he was on earth. The CC has been given the title Babylon and Beast by God, not the Adventist Church. We need to be remindid that there are many good people in the CC, but it is the system that is corrupt. This church was founded to help get people out of Babylon (confusion). The truth we teach is Biblical.

Nic Samojluk
2013-03-17 9:34 AM

We need to remember that Ellen White warned us--almost a century ago-- that we, Adventists, were in danger of becoming "a sister to Babylon." She said this at a time when we were still pro-life! What would she say today knowing that we have participated in the elective abortion business?

Rome did engage in the slaughter of the innocents centuries ago. Four decades ago the U.S. authorized the genocide of the unbon, and we Adventists profited from this. Isn't this the image of the beast? What do beasts of prey do? Dont they attack and kill the weak and defenseless? Is this so difficult to understand?

Edwin A. Schwisow
2013-03-17 10:07 PM

Perhaps in comparing the Adventist Church's stand unfavorably with othe RC's, we should also mention here the significantly different theology on the immortality of the soul between the two faiths. In fact, both churches could be said to be "morally inferior" to the Hindus, who technically outlaw any slaying of any animate creature of any kind, including insects.

Stephen Ferguson
2013-03-18 7:16 AM

I think you mean Jainism, not Hinduism.  

Trevor Hammond [22oct1844]
2013-03-18 3:16 AM

RE: "In fact, both churches could be said to be "morally inferior" to the Hindus, who technically outlaw any slaying of any animate creature of any kind, including insects."
-----------
Technically - yes; but I have personally witnessed at a Hindu religious gathering a man in a trancelike state bite on the neck of a chicken and drink its blood.  Many Hindu sects also sacrifice and eat pork, chickens, sheep and goats and some even have a bite of beef in the quiet.  Abortion is also common especially of female unborn babies in India at least.  Hinduism at its core is contradictory and this was one of the main reasons Gautama Buddha departed from it.  (Evolution at its core is also contradictory.)

Traditional Adventism has many major differences with all three versions of Catholicism: Eastern, Western and Anglican with the 'state of the dead' being one.

Stephen Ferguson
2013-03-18 7:23 AM

Again, I think Edwin was actually referring to Jainism, not Hinduism.  Hindus do eat meat, although they generally believe cows sacred so don't eat them, and the Brahman caste are meant to be vegetarians (but mainly for purity issues, not because of cruelty to animals). 

I agree our 'State of the Dead' belief is one of our most fundamental core beliefs that separate us from many of these other religions - both East and West.  Part of the reason for that is the Western notion of the immortal soul largely came from Plato and other Greek philosophies, which some of the Church Fathers (i.e. Christians of the 2nd century) like Origen pushed heavily.  Augustine and Aquinas later incorporated Plato and Aristotle fully into Christianity.

But not all of the original Church Fathers agreed.  I recall Iraenenus opposed Origen in promoting the immortal soul.  Tertullian also opposed Greek Philosophy creeping into Christianity generally, and the rise of man-appointed bishops over Spirit-gifted apostles and prophets, claiming 'What has Athens to do with Jerusalem.'

Terutllians cry is not so different from 'Come out of Babylon.'  To me, that is what Adventism represents - Christianity stripped of Pagan Philosophies.  We don't do it perfectly, and we have further Reformation and Revival to go, but that is the aim.

Vernon P. Wagner
2013-03-21 2:22 AM

An unbiased reveiw of Roman history will show how Constantine shoved his brand of Christianity down the throats of millions who followed other, equally spiritual leaders.  All who declined to join with Rome were eliminated via typical Roman brutality.  If one thanks the Vatican for Christianity, they must include the Crusades, and Inquisition for praise. 

Constantine's motives were clear:
1. One Religion
2. One Emperor
3. One Empire

Compare the regal peacocks, and Papal regalia of Rome with the Dalai Lama.  Which of these examples appears most Christlike? 

Nic Samojluk
2013-03-22 10:03 AM

Stephen, you wrote: "To me, that is what Adventism represents - Christianity stripped of Pagan Philosophies.

Yes, and I fully agree. I will only add that the brand of Adventism I embraced when I was baptized almost seven decades ago was purer that what we have today. We have deviated from the right path in our views of origin and the respect for human life. Our spiritual ancestors held in high value the biblical doctrinee of creation and the right to life of the unborn.

Anonymous


You do not have sufficient permissions to post a comment.


Log In to Post a Comment. Log In | Register

Adventist Today Magazine is published quarterly by Adventist Today Foundation

Phone: 503-826-8600   |   Email: atoday@atoday.org   |   Web: atoday.org