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"The Big 'But' "
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Submitted: Apr 24, 2012
By Preston Foster

 

 

Balance. 

 

It is usually a desired state of being.  Equilibrium is, in most cases, a state of tranquility and symmetry.  However, when we are talking about grace, balance is a dangerous thing.  When we speak of grace, balance, in its traditional sense, is often used to dilute grace, making it into a hybrid -- and false means of salvation.

 

This idea struck me as I read a post on the Normandie SDA Church Facebook site.  In that posting, Alex Stanley was quoted, saying:

 

“The church, or I should say, church people, must quit adding the word 'but' to the end of our sentences about grace. Grace plus is no longer grace. Grace minus is no longer grace. We are afraid people will abuse grace if presented in its purest form. We need not fear that; we should assume that. Religious people crucified grace personified . . .”

 

Many of our ministers preach “grace, but.”  Grace, but not freedom to sin.  Grace, but works.  Grace, but law.  Depending on who you talk to, grace might be all of these, but (according to some) it is more.  It is a really big “but.”  Grace, undiluted is, to some, a dangerous potion that requires “balance” (or, in my view, dilution).

 

 All of these qualifications leave room for self, pushing Christ aside and making His grace a function of our efforts.  It is not.  His grace is dependent on nothing but The Cross.  Our acceptance of His grace is dependent on our faith in His shed blood.  Gratitude for that gift will yield our sinful natures to the power of the Holy Spirit.  The power of the Holy Spirit will change our behavior (e.g. fruits of the Spirit). 

 

Still, our behavior is not the basis of our salvation.  Salvation starts with grace and ends with faith.

 

Adventists are not alone in seeking a “balanced” approach to grace.  Many others, including agnostics, atheists and people of other faiths, are works oriented.  Humans love the idea of self-reliance.  Works appeal to our vanity.  They are sometimes camouflaged in attractive clothing: work ethic, accomplishments, will power, intellect, or anything that we can attribute, at least in part, to ourselves.

 

For the moment, however, let’s think about why some of those in our Adventist culture (liberal and conservative) cannot accept grace without qualification.  Why are we so dependent on “The Big ‘But?’?”  Some might say that our focus on the law -- particularly, as Adventists, on the Sabbath (again, I am without qualification, “pro-Sabbath”), inevitably results in measuring our behavior (and that of others) against the requirements of the law.  Since the time the law was given, the gap between what the law says and what our behaviors are has generated frustration.    Examining the chasm between the law and our behavior makes us try harder. We internalize the law as righteousness. 

 

But Jesus, Himself, IS righteousness.  He is the one who fulfilled the law.  He is the one who paid the price for our sins.  If we are in Him, He is the one to whom the Father will see when examining our worthiness to be in His presence.  Our righteousness is in Christ.  There is no qualification, no alternative, and no but.

 

If salvation is by grace through faith, what else is there to discuss? 

 

Faith?

 

 

Timo Onjukka
2012-04-25 8:40 AM

Well put, Preston.

Unmeasured, relentless grace. Longsuffering and merciful. Even for one such as the likes of me.

When I look in the mirror of law, I despise what I see. If I had faith in matchless grace, perhaps I would be less likely to focus on anothers (greater, in my eye) mote. If I gave grace to them, as well, perhaps they too can begin to see through God's eyes, and believe and act likewise.

 

If i balance faith on the "but" of this fulcrum between grace and behavior, my surety in salvation wavers back and forth because of my failures, and do I not functionally-and faithlessly, I might add) imply His grace is insufficient?  If I place His grace on my balance, does this not indicate my faith resting on His faithfulness, despite my unfaithfulness?


Kevin Riley
2012-04-25 9:05 AM

I tend to agree with you, but we do still have the same long-standing question that has perplexed both liberals and conservatives - and even a few radicals and atheists - for a long time.  If we are saved by grace - and I believe the NT is clear we are - then why is the NT equally as clear that we are judged by our works?  If you don't believe me - or the hundreds of theologians who have written on the question - just take out your Bible and concordance and look up every instance of God judging us, and you will see every single one is based on works/what we do.  The one possible exception is the parable of the wedding feast, but most people see that as a parable of salvation (by the gift of grace alone) rather than of judgement.

William Noel
2012-05-03 9:09 AM

Kevin,

Our sins are like a dam in a stream of water naturally flowing downhill to water fields in the valley below.  The water is God's grace.  When allowed to do what it does naturally it produces results, the "crops" it grows in our lives are changes in our motivations, behaviors and works.  The most obvious measure of if the water is being allowed to do what it does naturally is to measure the results it is allowed to produce.  That, as I see it, is the relationship between grace and works.

Timo Onjukka
2012-04-25 9:28 AM

Perhaps the judgment referenced is not on the specific failures, omissions and comissions of definitive law. If that were the case, none would clear the hurdles of humanity and attain heaven. I sense that the  judgment (of my works-which are a testimony to my belief) is based on my trust in His character (which is the greater judgment, -really the only one, to wit, God's character), despite my own fallible character.

 

Jesus orphaned cry from the cross to Abba was not predicated on "save me because I am sinless",

but "I still trust your hands, daddy". Likewise, Adam, from the tree, essentially answered the same question "I do not trust your hands"...

 

Works are evidence of faith in grace...or replacing grace. Believing in grace even when my works condemn me-this is yet greater faith. Working harder to atone for my works...this condemns my claim to faith. And, when i DO finally accept grace in its fullness, I then pass it on, to all, without measure. This is perhaps my ONLY 'righteous' works...and this is kingdom-changing attitude and behavior. The faith of Jesus (I AM son) and the testimony (God is faithful)-will this be found?


Preston Foster
2012-04-25 10:11 AM

Thanks much, Timo.

I think there are (at least) a couple of ways to look at it, Kevin.

One, even if our works are judged, those who are saved will be SAVED by grace.  In consecutive chapters, (Romans 2 and 3), Paul says seemingly contradictory things:

(Romans 2:13):  "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous."

(Romans 2:6): "God will repay each person according to what they have done.” 

Then, in Romans 3:19-20, Paul says, "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin."  Later in Roman 3:27-29, Paul concludes, "Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law."

From this, one might conclude that even if our works are judged (and found wanting), the saved will be justified BECAUSE of their faith, overshadowing their inadequate or evil works.

Another view is that the works (in regard to the breaking of the law) of the saved are not judged as they are covered by the blood of Christ, as God the Father has committed judgment to Christ (John 5:21-23).  When the Father looks at our lives, He will only see that of His Son, as we are clothed in the righteousness of Christ.  Thus, there is no evil or inadequate works (in respect to the law) to judge (2 Corinthians 5:21).  In this view, if our works are not covered by the Blood (e.g. imputed righteousness) we will be judged by them -- and found wanting.

In either view, grace, activated by faith, is the means of salvation.
 

Kevin Riley
2012-04-25 9:17 PM

Preston

To hear you say "there are (at least) a couple of ways to look at it" concerning anything in the Bible made a good start to my day :)

I think we need to accept that this is one area that is not as simple as we think.  We are justified by faith.  We are saved by grace.  We are judged by works.  That is the biblical data.  It is simple.  Putting it together into a theological statement is what is dificult.  Almost every solution I have seen seems to be arrived at by ignoring or diminishing one area of data.  IMO, that results always in poor theology.  The parable of the sheep and goats focuses on two issues: all are judged, all are judged by how we treat Jesus in the person of 'the least of these' among us.  No escaping the fact that this is judgement into the kingdom = salvation.  The parable where many claim to have done many things in Jesus' name is also about entry into the kingdom, but this time it is those who claim to be saved who are judged, and it is not works but whether Jesus knows us that results in admittance into the kingdom.  Perhaps this parable is to prevent us thinkiing it is only about works.  The judgement scenes in Daniel and Revelation all point towards a judgement based on works. I don't deny that grace comes into it, and Jesus' righteousness covers us, but the basis of the case is what we have done.  Jesus also says he will reward each of us for what we have done.  That is one solution I am inclined towards - that the judgement is not about salvation but about rewards.  But we still have to take into account the parables of Jesus about being judged for entrance into the kingdom, not just for reward after entry.

I put this issue into the same category as the IJ: we are on the right track (mostly), but still hae not managed to put all the pieces together in a way that takes into account everything the Bible says.  There is a 'fatal flaw' in every solution I have read or heard preached.  But it is good to see the issue discussed again.  It is always better to be in the spiral than not, because at least we are moving, no matter how slowly.

For me, the key text is 'by grace you have been saved through faith and (all of) this is not of yourselves, but the gift of God'.

Preston Foster
2012-04-26 8:17 AM

Kevin,

John 6:27-29, to me, addresses the salvific work that will be judged.  When the disciples asked Christ, "What must we do to do the work that God requires?" Christ answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."  In short, faith -- which activates grace in our lives.  If this definition of works is translated into the context of the judgment of Daniel and Revelation, there is, at least for me, consistency between what is required for salvation.  Galatians 5:4-6 is explicit, "You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." 

The reward for good and bad works is, I believe, judged as well (and is related to this discussion). But my focus, for now (re: "The Big 'But'"), is salvation.   

Preston Foster
2012-04-26 8:32 AM

Clarification: the last sentence should read, "But my focus, for now (re: The Big 'But'"), is grace and its relationship to salvation."

Thanks.

Stephen Foster
2012-04-26 12:24 PM

We are saved by grace through faith. Grace is not only unmerited favor, but also the power to live by faith.
 
Faith without works (loving others and treating them with love) is dead. These works are the fruit of the Spirit of love by which we live through faith.
 
Without faith it is impossible to please Him because the fruit of the Spirit of love is only borne by faith.
 
Without transforming faith, our actions will be of flesh; which will be found wanting.
 
By faith (in Christ) we are justified (by His righteousness) and covered by His blood; and there is nothing to judge.

laffal
2012-04-26 1:40 PM

There is a 3rd Biblical feature that is quite frequently left out of the "saved by grace, and judged by works" dialog... motivation.  It's not what we do for God / Jesus that matters, as much as why we do what for do.  1 Corinthians 4:5 tells us that when judgment comes, it will be the secret intents of the heart that will be revealed, not our deeds.  Matthew 7:21-23 is a clear example of those who do all of the "good works" outlined in the Bible, but why did they do them?  They are judged as "workers of iniquity"... in short, they were works of selfishness... Works of faith born out of a heart appreciation for the gift of grace / salvation that is freely given to whosoever will recieve it will be born out in judgment as well... Revelation 14:12... In addition, Satan's our 24/7 accuser will be told to shut his mouth concerning us, because or lives / works will be used to demonstate that our faith and trust concerning all things salvation / righteousness is in Christ... alone...

Preston Foster
2012-04-27 10:54 AM

laffal,

I think you are spot on.  Works as a motivation in itself, usually breeds vanity, measurement, and judgment of others.  Works that are the fruit of the Spirit are motivated by love and spirit of service.

Steve, faith is the key to grace -- and salvation, and, as Paul points out in Galatians, "the only thing that counts."

This may be one of the most underestimated verses in the Bible.

All4Him
2012-04-30 5:31 AM

Our salvation starts with Grace and continues with a relationship.  It's the relationship that only grace can offer that brings real change into our lives. 

Kevin Riley
2012-04-30 8:41 PM

Of course, a relationship without 'works' probably doesn't work any better with God than it does with fellow humans.  However you read the Bible, you can't escape the fact that it talks far more about works and obedience than it does about relationship.

Elaine Nelson
2012-04-30 9:47 PM

Is there anything in the Bible that we should expect to have a personal relationship with God?  We are all capable of human relationships; but with God, the Creator of the Universe, how is that attainable?

Kevin Riley
2012-05-01 1:42 AM

There is no command to have such a relationship, but the record of Enoch, and of Abraham who is called a friend of God, would point to such a relationship being possible.  But I believe we make a mistake when we start from the position that God is our 'buddy'.  If we start with God and who he is, then the idea of having a relationship with God is very different to having a 'buddy'.  If we lose the wonder that God not only wants a relationship, but has done everything to facilitate it, then we are probably heading for trouble.

Bill Garber
2012-04-30 10:03 PM

Works
Judgment
Grace
Salvation
Faith
 
The simple reason that this conversation continues is that it is challenging to accept that "by grace you have been saved through faith and (all of) this is not of yourselves, but the gift of God." (Ephesians 2:8) ... As Kevin quoted.
 
The challenge is that in the same scripture there is much about the other terms.
 
If 'faith without works is dead' is not about 'works' in the sense of judgment, but works in the sense of walking one's talk, it means something other than a necessity of 'works' but an inevitability of the alignment between what we believe and how we act.
 
Judgment is, by consensus in reading the scripture, about works. Now, if Judgment is only about our state based on our works, then judgment does not determine who will be saved.  Indeed, it is pretty clear in scripture that we are all going to be judged as undeserving of eternal life, but rather deserving of death.
 
It is after the judgment and by the grace of God that we are saved from death and honored with eternal life.
 
Our collective salvation once and for eternity perfectly demonstrates that God can be trusted as gracious and loving and non-condemning.
 
Finally, as a result of the combination of the judgment and the saving grace of God, God has utterly foreclosed on sin, as in doubting God's love, arising again.
 
Now about that 'but' ... the 'but' arises involuntarily by reason of the impossibility for most of us to concede that the unconditional nature of God's grace means that God guarantees that no one will fail to be saved.  That is why we are so quick to add the big 'but' to grace.  How about changing the 'but' to ... 'But' if grace is grace, we are all saved.  And in the same truth, 'But' if grace isn't grace, we all die.

If we start with grace, it is difficult to resolve the other 'verses' in the scripture.  That said, I'd rather admit I don't understand those verses than spending my time tring to explain away grace.  








Kevin Riley
2012-05-01 1:48 AM

I long ago came to the conclusion that we all find the grace of God offensive.  Even the most liberal of us wants someone to be outside God's grace, or else it ceases to be of value to us.  If God truly saves sinners, have we not wasted a lot of effort on being 'good'?  Somewhere, if not before salvation then after it, we want a clause to say it must be 'deserved'.  To believe we will be in heaven and not in some way deserve to be there is troubling, to know others who deserve it much less will also be there is a bit too much to handle.  Although Paul goes to great length to say that nothing can separate us from the love of God, we all instinctively feel there must be something, and if not for us, then certainly for 'real' sinners.  Like Jonah, we don't doubt that God can and should punish sinners, it's just that we have this niggling doubt about whether he will.

Bill Garber
2012-05-02 7:58 PM

Well said, Kevin.

And it seems to me that there are also people who so very much want to be reunited with their families in the New Earth or in Heaven, that, while they realize that no one will actually make a life score worthy of  Heaven, just in case God grades on the curve rather than just takes everyone, they will be best served in giving the law their best effort.

This, of course, gives rise to the urge to compare one's self with others and to in so doing attempt to improve one's virtue up by putting others down rather than actually perfecting one's own character.  

No doubt that for many, the grace of God is offensive.  And for many, the grace of God is just too far to leap even by faith.

We are all frightened.  And our pent up adrenalin has to be put to some use just to calm the jitters, and law keeping can soak up an endless amount of energy as can wrestling the logic to get past 'not of yourselves.'

In an oxymoronic way, grace is certainly anything but free in this life.  Indeed, gace alone is anything but cheap, no matter the currency used to calculate the price.  




Tapiwa Mushaninga
2012-05-11 3:12 AM

Can i then ask a question through this illustration, Lets say there are two men and both are in the act of adultery and they die while in the very act of adultery. there only difference between the two men is that the other at some point in time had a genuine conversion experience and accepted the gift of grace? in this scenario who shall be saved and who shall be lost?

Elaine Nelson
2012-05-11 12:26 PM

GOK.  Unless you are one of the individuals, what business is it of yours?  Leave it to God, please.

Preston Foster
2012-05-12 6:36 AM

Tapiwa,

The only answer I have any confidence rendering is this: it depends on Jesus.

We sometimes forget that it is not repentence that makes us good, but God's goodness that leads us to repentence (Romans 2:4).  I believe that our sins are forgiven.  If we have access to the Father, through Christ.  He is (Christ) the judge (and, thank God, the Savior), not us.

JaNe
2012-05-17 12:45 AM


BUT
The "cheap grace" crowd, such as Joseph Prince, teaches that the Law of God (commandments) are no longer binding on Christians.

So where do they get this "cheap grace" from and down play the Law of God, or even go as far as to reject it outright?

Christ gave us the outline of the Old Testament Scriptures- ...which were written in the law of Moses (Known as the Pentateuch, the 1st 5 books of the Bible), and in the prophets (Divided into the former prophets, primarily historrical, and latter prophets, primarily future prophecies), and in the psalms (Also known by some as the poetic books), concerning me. Luke 24:44

So they don't get their rejection of the law from the Pentateuch, where God wrote His Law with His own finger in stone - And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God. Exodus 31:18 Or from the Prophets, whether former - to obey is better than sacrifice, 1 Samuel 15:22 or from the latter - I have written to him the great things of my law, but they were counted as a strange thing. Hosea 8:12 Nor do they get it from the psalms - O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day. Psalm 119:97

They don't get it from the four Gospels, where He lived the Law as our example and said on the night of the Last Supper -If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15

They don't get it from the General Epistles of James, Peter, John & Jude.
*But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. James 1:22, 2:10,11
*....because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, 1 Peter 2:21,22
*For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. 1John 5:3 2John 1:6
*For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, Jude 1:4 OR in the NLT I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. OR in the NIVUK For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God.... OR in the AMP For certain men have crept in stealthily [[gaining entrance secretly by a side door]. Their doom was predicted long ago, ungodly (impious, profane) persons who pervert the grace (the spiritual blessing and favor) of our God into lawlessness and wantonness and immorality,

They don't get their "cheap grace" from the Revelation - Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:14 As for the Remnant And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, Revelation 12:17

They get their ideas of "cheap grace" and downplaying the Law of God from distorting out of context the writings of Paul.

Peter warns us about the writings of Paul-- ....even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
* in which are some things hard to be understood,
* which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
* as they do also the other scriptures,
* unto their own destruction.
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2 Peter 3:15-17
 
Paul was always worried about those who were not ready for the deeper things, for the meat of the word, because they had not yet mastered the milk of the word I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 1 Corinthians 3:2 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12
 
What does Paul REALLY teach?
Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? Romans 2:21-23
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Romans 6:15
 
A Summary of Paul:
For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:23
And what is sin?
...for sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4
 
  • We are NOT saved by keeping the Law, but we can be lost by violating it. We are to keep the Law because our hearts are right with God, and it is a reflection of that. Also, as for His Law, the real beef they have with it is that they don't want to keep the Sabbath, lets just be blunt.

Preston Foster
2012-05-17 6:34 AM

JaNe,

The so-called “cheap grace” argument ignores the specificity of The Word when it explicitly refers to the transitory nature of the 10 commandments in 2 Corinthians 3 (whole chapter), where, in the KJV, the law is referred to as “The ministry of death written and engraved in stone,”: as abolished (verse 13).  
 
Specifically, 2 Corinthians 3: 6-7: Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?  For if the ministration of condemnation [be] glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.  For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.  For if that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that which remaineth [is] glorious.”
 
 
Paul continues to speak, specifically, about the abolishment of the old covenant law and the blindness of those who depend on it (2 Corinthians 3:13-17):
 
“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech.  And not as Moses, [which] put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ.  But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.  Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.  Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.”
 
The purpose of the law is to bring us to Christ (Galatians 3:24-25):
 
 "Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody(AM) under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.(AN) 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came(AO) that we might be justified by faith.(AP) 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian."(AQ)
  
 
Depending on the law, after that point, is a curse, Galatians 3: 10-12:
 
10 “For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse,(Q) as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e](R) 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God,(S) because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f](T) 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”
 
The Sabbath is used, improperly, to keep people focused on the law, not on Christ.  Christ is the fulfillment of the law.  The Sabbath precedes the law (Genesis 2:1-2).  Even in the New Covenant, the Sabbath rest REMAINS:
 
Hebrews 4: 4-8: 
 
“For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.”[c](D) 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”(E)
6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience,(F) 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
    do not harden your hearts.”[d](G)
8 For if Joshua had given them rest,(H) God would not have spoken(I) later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e](J) just as God did from his.(K) 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.”(L)
 
In the New Covenant, God writes His law on our hearts.  We keep His commandments -- to love, out of love, not obligation.  Good works and obedience are a product of love, not vice versa.
 
But let us not get it twisted: we are saved by grace through faith alone; not by works.  
 
Romans 3:20-28:
 
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
 
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[h] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
 
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law." 
 
The danger, if any, is in “cheap works,” not in grace.
 

Elaine Nelson
2012-05-17 10:54 AM

Had we wanted complete sermons, we could simply go to church.

Preston Foster
2012-05-17 6:40 PM

Thanks Elaine.  When possible, I try to respect the input of others with respect to areas of disagreement.  Obviously, I think the tension between law and grace in Adventistim is important, since it has implications for salvation (in the long run) and for peace of mind, here and now.  Since the response was to JaNE, given her post, perhaps she LIKES sermonettes.

Peace.

Elaine Nelson
2012-05-17 6:56 PM

Sermonettes to hear, or sermonettes to write?

Moderator
2012-05-17 8:16 PM

JaNe, the length of your replies are greatly excessive.Please edit yourself in the future.

We're not looking forward to trying  trim THAT down! Surely you can state your disagreement without two pages of reply!


Timo Onjukka
2012-05-18 7:50 AM

""The danger, if any, is in “cheap works,” not in grace.""          

You, sir, seem to have added pivotal change, upon which you claim the scripture to derive and support your meaning.

The prodigal story clearly shows the elder detested the grace his dad showed the younger, stating quite clearly his reliance on his works should give him more status. Father answers the same to both; did you not KNOW? You have ALWAYS been my sons!


Preston Foster
2012-09-17 5:52 PM

Ephesians 2:8-9, My Friend. 



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